2) From the sounds of that, Pete Rose was not the reason you got into baseball. Your Dad was the reason you got into baseball. My Dad tells plenty of stories about doing legal work for a specific company (let’s call them Company X). That doesn’t mean that Company X is the reason I want to get into law, it means my Dad is the reason I want to get into law.

There’s a big difference between a player you develop an affinity for yourself, and a player your Dad shows you highlights of. There’s simply no way you can feel the same about a player that is forced upon you and a player you become a fan of yourself. (Not to imply that your Dad is a wacko Pete Rose fanatic or anything…just can’t think of another word besides force to use there)

3) There was no over reaction. He managed baseball and he bet on it. You cannot do that. At no point has that even been remotely appropriate. People reacted quite reasonably given the outrageousness of what he did. Tim Donaghy went to jail for a similar offense, so Pete getting banned from baseball is hardly an over reaction by comparison.

Furthermore, Rose’s actions WERE ON FIELD, so the fact that he was “done playing” is irrelevant. He was managing. While you are managing a MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM, you are a representative of MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. The HOF recognizes those who have made a significant contribution to MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. By betting on MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL while managing MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, Rose gave MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL a black eye. Regardless of the fact that it happened after his playing career, it did not happen after his MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL career. Given that, can you really make the claim that Rose made a significant contribution even after he disgraced himself and the game?

4) Franks elaborated on this point quite nicely, but let me reiterate. You are wrong. Simply totally incorrect. First of all, the Hall of Fame celebrates all achievements relating to the specific sport. That’s why 79 of the 289 members of the Baseball HOF weren’t even players. If the HOF was established to celebrate on field achievements, those people wouldn’t be involved.

Secondly, What a player does off the field IS relevant, especially if it results in a black eye on the entire sport. Drug problems or money problems or whatever are one thing, but heinous crimes (ie murder, for fuck’s sake) and actions that are specifically detrimental to the sport (like betting on your own team’s games) are a whole new level. Those reflect negatively on the sport and the league as a whole, and as such are held against a player when considering their HOF status.

And if Bart Starr went out and murdered someone today they may very well remove him from the HOF, yes.

And in response to Mr. Franks question: You know how you feel when you see Tom Brady pose in a sleeveless shirt holding a baby goat? Nothing like that. At all.

1) Emmitt Smith
2) Troy Aikmen
3) Adrian Peterson
4) Barry Sanders
5) Michael Irvin
6) DeMarcus Ware
7) Lawrence Taylor
Ray Lewis
9) Peyton Manning
10) Mike Vick

haha, im fucking with you, 10) Clinton Portis

2) KC, unfortunately I agree that it is retarded to say Pete is one of your favorite players. You don’t know Pete, you know his stats. To watch highlights, old footage, etc. etc. is not enough. To fully understand and appreciate a player, you have to understand and appreciate the time he lives in, and also, perhaps what is going on in your life at the time. If your life is nonexistent, and your only connection to the man is through technology and not actual empathy, he cannot be one of your “favorite players”. It’s also interesting that you claim to actually have a “top 10″ list, and that Pete Rose is definitely on it. Who is the eleventh guy takin a backseat to Pete? Also, please make your next post simply your NFL top 10 of all time. I would love to take a gander.

3) I do agree that off-field struggles should not take away from on-field integrity, HOWEVER you idiot lol, the HOF celebrates not your performance on the field, but your contribution to the sport. If you tarnish the enitre league’s reputation by goin out and knifing a couple folks until they die, your contribution to football as a whole I’d say is below average.

RM Franks Over and Out!

2) I understand that you have a simple admiration for past players like Earl Campbell and Warren Moon. Troy Aikmen and Emmit Smith were the reasons I started following the Cowboys in ‘95. But I would still consider Roger Staubach and Tony Dorsett some of my favorite players (not top 10) because of what they did for the franchise. Pete Rose was one of my childhood favorites along with Mickey Mantle and Lou Gehrig because my dad and neighbour when I lived in NJ talked alot of baseball. I became enamoured early and like him to this day. I personally think you can consider past players as a top 10 because Pete Rose was one of the reasons I became a fan of baseball.

3) I understand he did something wrong. My point is it happened after he was done playing. And I wasn’t around when it happened and everyone over reacted, I can look at what he did with an unbias view point.

4) The HOF celebrates on the field achievements, what happens off the field is irrelevant. If today I found out that Emmitt Smith raped and murdered someone I would still think he should be in the HOF. Why? Because he is the alltime leading rusher in the NFL, what happens after should have no effect on his ballot status. If Bart Starr went out and murdered someone today would they kick him out? No. So why should it effect someone getting in?

And there is almost always (some are in fact retarded) reasons I like players, explaining why is a long and irrelevant process which I avoid by saying he’s a thug.

2) Those 95% of athletes should not be included in your top 10 favorite players. Acknowledging and respecting the players that came before our time is one thing, proclaiming them to be amongst your favorites despite not being alive at any point when they were playing is another. Looking at stats shouldn’t make someone your favorite player. Nor should stories from other people. And highlights are NOTHING. Last I checked no one was punching Shawn Kemp’s HOF ticket.

As for your mention of Earl Campbell and Warren Moon, allow me to explain this to you very simply. I became a Titans fan in 1999. Neither of those gentlemen were on the team at the time, and thus, had NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER on my decision to cheer for the Titans. Do I respect the careers they’ve had and what they’ve done for the organization? Of course. Have I researched them in an effort to know as much about the organization as possible? Absolutely. Would I include them in my 10 favorite players? Of course not. Because my favorite players have impacted ME. My favorite players are the ones who made me love football, and the ones that still make me love it. My favorite players are the ones that I have fond memories of. My favorite players are born out of personal experiences. Steve McNair and Eddie George had that effect on me, because they are the players that turned me into Titans fans. Earl Campbell and Warren Moon, as great as they were, have had NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER on me as a football fan, because their impact came in a time when I was not a football fan. I can’t just look at a stat sheet and a highlight reel and say “Wow, this guy used to be good, I think I’ll make him my favorite player despite the fact that he will never directly contribute to my experience as a sports fan.” That’s like me saying James Dean is my favorite actor because I’ve seen clips of his movies and know that people liked them, even though I’ve never seen one myself, and wasn’t alive when he was popular. It’s ridiculous.

My favorite players, like Steve McNair, Eddie George, Teemu Selanne, Joe Carter, Roy Halladay, Chris Bosh…I can remember specific moments where every one of those guys have done something that dramatically affected my sports fandom. Even guys like Chris Paul or Joe Sakic, who don’t play for my favorite teams, are guys that make me love the sport because of the way they play it. My admiration for those players can’t be expressed through a stat sheet, a higlight package, or a story from my Dad. My favorite players make me feel a certain way when I watch them play (NH), so the idea of having a favorite player that you’ve never watched is ridiculous to me.

Continuing on, Pete Rose gets PLENTY of admiration for being the career hits leader. It’s the reason this same subject comes up every fucking year. Don’t try and play some ridiculous disrespect card for Pete fucking Rose. The guy gets all the praise he deserves for being a great ball player, and all the scorn he deserves for being a monumental asshat.

And would you mind linking me to the “Kerry Collins for HOF” post I wrote? Oh, that doesn’t exist? How about the “Kerry Collins is one of my top 10 favorite players post”? Oh, I never wrote that either? Then where in the flying fuck did you get the idea to bring Kerry Collins into this? He’s a mediocre QB on my favorite football team, not a Hall of Fame “candidate” that I’m proclaiming to be one of my favorite players of all time. And even if I was, it would be a little more legitimate, because, you know, I actually watch him play and cheer for him all the time. That’s what one tends to do with their favorite players.

3) So, you’re comfortable saying he’s one of your favorites based on a career built entirely before you were born, but because the negative things in his career also happened before you were born you choose to gloss them over? You “do your research” when it comes to him playing, but not when it comes to him putting a black mark on the entire fucking sport? Not when it comes to him blatantly fucking lying to anyone with a microphone until he shamelessly apologized upon realizing it was necessary for a potential HOF bid? This kind of contradicts everything you’ve been saying.

4) That is literally one of the dumbest fucking things I’ve ever read. You actually think anyone believes the NFL should celebrate the football accomplishments of a FUCKING DOUBLE MURDERER??? Yes, that would be a genius idea. I’m sure that would be so well received.

And if you went into explaining the reason you like all the players you like, you’d be typing out “He’s a thug” over and over again. That’s your (ridiculous) explanation for being a fan of more than half of the players you’re a fan of anyway. So it would be boring, but not very long.

2) 95% of all athletes played before I was old enough to understand what was going on. I’m not just going to ignore the past because I wasn’t around for it, that would be ignorant. I like Bill Russell, Walter Payton, Mike Singletary, Tony Dorsett, Mickey Mantle, Loe Gehrig, and numerous other that I didn’t watch. Why? Because I did research, watched highlights, and learned about them from people who were around then. I mean i’m not sure how deep your Titan fandom goes but I would assume that your a Warren Moon fan or a Earl Campbell fan and have little to no live game viewing under your belt. People are fans of players for different and weird reasons. I like that he was one of the greatest hitters ever and am annoyed that he gets no recognition for that because of a betting scandal that happened when he wasn’t even fucking playing anymore. I could care less that he was a douche bag, I like Pete Rose the athlete not Pete Rose the man. Kerry Collins was an alchoholic douche bag earlier in his career and you still manage.

3) The reason I can like the guys is probably because I grew up after all that shit happened. BECAUSE I didn’t see that shit storm.

4) I hate OJ Simpson. But if I liked him I WOULD be pissed if his 2000+ season or his HOF worthy career in Buffalo was banned because he was a murderer. You know, something that happened AFTER his career was over and should have no effect on his playing career.

The reason I didn’t go into it further was because the article wasn’t intended to be my way of proving my admiration for Pete Rose but to talk about the possibility of him being reinstated. If I went on explaining every reason I like all the players I like my articles would get WAY to long and VERY boring.

I mean, he never saw OJ play, and the whole double murder thing was kind of a bummer, but whatever! KC is one of his biggest fans! In fact, for literally no conceivable reason, KC would put him in his top 10 players of all time!

Something to think about, KC. You were not alive for Pete Rose’s playing career. You were not alive for Pete Rose’s managing career. You were not alive when Pete Rose bet on baseball while he was managing it. You were not alive for the fallout. You were not alive for the first several years of him blatantly lying about his role in the aforementioned scandal.

All you were alive for was the last several years of him blatantly lying, and then his eventual half assed apology when he realized there was no way for him to get into the HOF without doing so.

Is it at all possible, given that you missed his ENTIRE FUCKING CAREER, that you are somehow overlooking what a colossal asshole Pete Rose is?

It is at all possible, given that you missed his ENTIRE FUCKING CAREER, that his inclusion amongst your 10 favorite players is based on next to nothing?

Like, seriously…you can’t proclaim that an acknowledged cheater, liar, and dickhead that you have never seen play is in your top 10 favorite players and give NO explanation. I would take issue with that comment if it was ANY player you had never seen play, let alone a dirtbag like Pete Rose.